There have been some criticizing comments directed towards the endeavour which is Awards '98 from Oracle, suggesting that the whole process is a gigantic popularity contest.
Awards 98. Yes, I haven't forgotten.. As a matter of fact, the awards 98 will be changing sometime this week. What will be in its place?
I'm all for the idea of something like Awards, as long as people remember what they're voting for. It's one thing to support your friends and groupmates, but be honest and vote for the most deserving candidate(s). If you don't know who's who in a category, go out and download some packs rather than just voting for the first name you recognize.
Awards 98 voting is now open, so head on over to the site and lodge your vote.. Remember, vote for the deserving person, not the most popular doodleboy that comes to mind..
Can you turn off the on-the-fly voting tallies?
Hmm.. Only the person who has just voted will see the results.. Yes, I did try, but the script didn't like it.. (My CGI skills are not quite complete yet)
I can tell all my friends what the figures were as of this afternoon, though; all I have to remember is who was in first or second place and I can whisper to all of my buds how to pull the vote.
I'm saying that I tried to disable it without success.. Trying now would be futile.
This whole online voting is a sham. It's easy to just vote over and over on one person, just disable your proxy server and keep reconnecting.
On that note I would have to agree.. Due to immarturity of certain people (who I do know about btw) many artists are receiving multiple votes from the same person.
Oh yeah, and because of these cheats -- Awards 98 is closed, so don't bother voting.
I told you so! Look for my comments in Defjamz 2
Blue Devil:
the year, 1996. the place, the ansi scene. the disaster, awards 96. stoked, we all were, when the talk on the street was awards 96 was just around the corner. it was more or less a "dcc send your votes" kind of deal. so finally after all the hoe downs, it happened. but it was a disgusting ugly horrible mess. why? well, when you involve more than 20% of the ansi scene, everything goes to hell. the whole awards 96 ended up being a big joke. the next year fractal and others deemed to try once again, but well due to the idiots of thescene, they never finished it. so again, this year, in a more professional matter, awards 98 hit the scene.actually i thought with the good job dangermouse had done with the voting, it was going to be a sucess. but to
To tell you the truth I have no real proof it was any one person -- I just know of someone who tried it to see if they could do it..
Additional to Blue Devil - until you share your secret solution to the voting problem, you're not part of the solution.
Oh Sorry Kids did I make you Mad, well All ANswers will be revealed come Jan 1999 Until then you must stay in the dark =)
Dangermouse,
BD:
Oh, Lets throw insults now shall we, It's quite simple that this has been proven not to work, it didnt work in 96 didn't work last year and it didn't work this year like a quote from what a pal of mine has said when it comes to debating this.
Okay, here's my take on the whole Awards thing -- I was honest. I voted from school once, and didn't vote from home again or cheat or anything. I did notice that when I voted, me and Discyple, the two best ascii artists, were puzzlingly losing to Cypher Hex, who hasn't drawn in 10 years and who just isn't (no offense) as good as us. At that point, I despaired that the results of the voting would be accurate. =)
I say give up on awards.
BD:
Louse Thanks for your vote of confidence and your opinion. However if you Knew every thing insults and derogatory comments don't hurt my feelings! So DAMN try again =)!
Cold hard facts? It's simple Quip AWARDS 98 = Failure Get over it.
Somehow I wish I hadn't made the observation about Blue Devil being like a stone. I may have just unwillingly boosted his ego. =)
I support Meatpod's suggestion as a workable compromise.
BD: The fact still remains that ppl saying "I told you so" is hardly a constructive way to give back something to the scene..
Let's do a Javascript-roulette that chooses Nominee names from a list. The nominee that got most random hits in a month would be the 1st and so on :)
Tomppa1: those charts aren't too correct either :). i once got third in a vga compo with a graphic made in 5 minutes in deluxepaint, still people voted for me cause it was funny. In the demoscene, when some future crew member releases a vga it is 100% sure it will end at number 1 even if it would be complete bullshit.
There are better ways to determine 'best' artists of the year. I.e., judge based on quantity and quality of artwork over the past year. Granted, sounds like a lot of work.. but it wouldn't be if the reviews were done 12 months straight for a year.
I'd say judge based awards are the best idea from now on, as Tomppa1 says, the other option already tried just doesn't seem to work for the scene. So, what are you working on massd :) Do tell!
no hype.. first, I want to see if it'll work, second, i want to see if i'm going to have time to do it. then i'll let you all know. :)
Have you so little faith in democracy? The scene is large enough to ensure (in my opinion) that quality will be recognized over friendship. Are we not mature enough to distinguish between a nice guy and a good artist?
There are those who propose getting a panel of judges to select the winners instead. How should these judges be selected?
Don't criticize the process unless you can propose a viable alternative to your objections, because **(obligatory daily sexist remark for the day.)**
the only thing worse than a snitch is a bitch.
By Dangermouse on Monday, November 30, 1998 - 06:55 pm:
Full online voting. I have decided that the actual voting will take place for at least a month, maybe a bit less. The "ceremony" on IRC will only be a token affair, with the winners being announced.
I'll keep you posted.
By Inazone on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 12:07 pm:
Simply put, don't be a tool.
By Dangermouse on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 01:33 pm:
http://www.acheron.org/awards98/
By Cthulu on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 05:46 pm:
This sort of thing really undermines democracy.
By Dangermouse on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 07:07 pm:
By Cthulu of Mistigris. M-I-S-T-I-G-R-I-S. Vote for on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 08:59 pm:
Not that I WOULD, but clearly we're not all as mature as I am. Are you saying that this is an automatic CGI feature that you can't disable?
By Dangermouse on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 11:49 pm:
People will just have to treat this like a secret ballot, and not tell anyone..
By Konami on Thursday, December 3, 1998 - 03:33 pm:
I know various people who are already doing this who shall remain nameless.
As well, why isn't there samples of peoples work so people can judge fairly? We are asked to judge based on artistic merit where there is no actually artwork to weigh merit between artists present!
In my opinion, awards `98 is a compleate failure.
Hat's off to Dangermouse for the effort, but it just wasn't enough.
By Dangermouse on Thursday, December 3, 1998 - 03:52 pm:
There will never again be an awards ceremony hosted by acheron.org -- it takes too much effort on my part to get it going, and even when I do, people still abuse the system.
Other types of voting offer no other fool-proof methods of ridding multiple votes either -- ppl can have multiple e-mail accounts, etc..
The only other viable method of doing it would be to, as many have said before, but laid upon deaf ears -- my own mainly -- that a panel of senior artists within the scene select the most worthy ppl.. If acheron.org is to have anymore involvement in this kind of thing, then this is the model it will follow..
Hosting awards98 I thought would be a democratic process, and would be the best way of choosing the artists who deserve an award. How wrong I was..
By Dangermouse on Thursday, December 3, 1998 - 03:57 pm:
(I can in no way honestly say someone as won if the possibility exists that their vote was rigged).
ps. It was fun while it lasted -- didn't know so many drew, or so many groups existed, etc..
By BlueDevil on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 11:02 am:
about this whole incident, in my article, I told you so!
By Quip on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 01:28 pm:
Shut the fuck up. You're a moron.
Dangermouse tried to organize something special like this, and all you can do is spit on it after it went haywire, and say, "See? I was RIGHT, and you were WRONG." Shame on you.
By Filth on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 03:32 pm:
my, and others dismay, it was just another immature flop. i guess the point of my post is that you can'tdepend on the scene to be there, when you want something really big, great, or fun to happen.
and honestly, i think you, dangermouse, should give out the names of the people that ruined it for everyone. ithink we should know who these kids are that are trying to destroy the scene, really are.
and to you stupid kids who ruined it for everyone, thanks a lot for proving that the scene really can't be fun.
By Dangermouse on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 03:38 pm:
But, obviously, some of the votes were tampered with, and from this, I came to the conclusion that any of the final results could be false -- hence rendering the entire exercise useless.
By Anonymous on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 04:16 pm:
That means that you're part of the problem.
By BlueDevil on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 07:37 pm:
An far as a solution my advice was never asked :>
By RaD Man on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 10:59 pm:
It's quite simple really. Post the IP addresses of those that were receiving multiple votes. We'll handle it from there. :)
-r
By Quip on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 11:01 pm:
Mad? Hardly. Disappointed? Very. I'm disappointed that people like you suck up all active scene-catered attention spans. You THINK that you know it all, yet your petty rants (like the ones on Oracle) lack substance like Clinton lacks dignity. It's actually entertaining seeing you act like the scene is a group of your personal henchmen; people who look up to you for fact and opinion.
I don't know about the rest of the scene, but I see right through you.
All answers will be revealed? Come on. What did you do, climb a mountain, practice some Yoga, and develop these answers to our prayers through Buddhist worship? I think not.
By Blue Devil on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 07:52 am:
(dieznyik ) no bd, theres nuffin to debate about.. the idea sucked in 96, again in 97, and once more in a completely new and sucky fashion in da nine-eight
AN he made a simple yet accurate point. Awards 98 is a failure because the vote was unregulated.
In all voting events there are several precinct judges and all other kinds of officials to make sure a vote is counted once and is secure. The only way for a democracy to work is for it to be policed to some extent, Bottom line there were loop holes all across the board
Only by tossing insults now you show your frustrations. Sure You have a right to be mad,But Have I not been Saying since August that this was a Bad Idea cause it wasn't based on merit and would be based on popularity. Furthermore by your character assasination attempts you only prove that I might actual know what I am talking about =P
An as far as substance goes I alwa ys present things with the facts the cold hard facts. All answers revealed means when I reveal this new plan of action all of it will be laid down on the table. There won't be any shananigans, hoot nannies or any other rubish that get's in the way. An Instead of One man trying to do it cause by god Never has one man just been responsible for a electorate I will Have several.
Furthermore, Don't Insult me because you have a inferiority complex. It's plain in simple this type of system DOES NOT WORK IN THE SCENE, so
with that once again I will re-hash my saying from the last message and that quite simple is
"I told you SO !"
Now if you wish to keep the arguementation up then by all means keep it up, I'm fair game but this arguement after the fact is not accomplishing anything. An to continue to do so would be unproductive and futile. So just bear and grin it. Move on because God damn it things will get better.
Peace =D
By Meatpod on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 08:37 am:
Seriously, though, I agree that the scene is simply not mature enough as a whole to handle this. What I propose for future awards ceremonies is that only those artists nominated for a category be allowed to vote in the category (and not for themselves). I mean, frankly, who cares what the people who weren't even good enough to be nominated think? Awards should be for the individual elite, because the shitty artists with the good computers and internet accounts will always cheat.
But don't give up on Awards! It's an important ego-promoting institution!
By Louse on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 09:37 am:
bd: whatever the hell your idea is, I say it'll never work and it'll suck, and I won't like it.
Then I'll come on here and say I told you so, because it failed to meet my own criteria which as you'll notice are pretty broad. And hey, I've got a 50% chance of being completely right, anyway.
I think then maybe I'll become overly defensive and refer to straightforward negative opinions of my attitude as "insults".
By Quip on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 12:12 pm:
You wanted the cold hard facts? I gave them to you. I figured you could handle that with ease, but I figured wrong.
Louse:
Thank you for supporting my point. Unfortunately, from the opinion that I have gathered, Blue Devil is one of those stones that just can not be broken. Not easily, anyways.
By Blue Devil on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 12:21 pm:
Anyhow further discussion is pointless and trivial. It's like talking to a brick wall nothing is going to happen sparky =).
By Blue Devil on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 02:56 pm:
That is the cold hard fact.
AN you are so right you cannot break me nor can any flamatory remarks so resistance is Futile.
Go do yourself a favor, Go have fun.
By Quip on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 03:30 pm:
By Cthulu of Mistigris on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 06:15 pm:
I support Quip's irritation at Blue Devil as justifiable.
I support underwear for athletes as athletic support.
Any questions?
By Dangermouse on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 09:14 pm:
Contacting me about a better idea for awards 98, or even a suggestion might have helped matters.. But I'm not one to cry over spilt milk.
It seems awards 98 was over before it ever started.
By Tomppa1 on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 05:37 am:
that's the only way that works for scene, because
80% of people here are so dumb that their votes have nothing to do with nominee's pieces of artwork produced.
for a nominee there should be required a year's or two's sceneactivity and if everyone can be a nominee that's just bullshit. now the nomineelists are so BIG that you can hardly recognize other's. what kinds of awards they need?
people will get all their relatives to vote, maybe even their pets.
i'd say; no more awards in future. all diskmag charts, previews of art and shit like that have shown that
people just support their own groups (releaser's) SO much that there isn't any reality
left.
The only charts that are working are on Demoscene.
By Nightstalker on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 07:27 am:
Don't ever let a demoscener vote for an ansi compo or you'll see very weird results :) I've only once seen an ansi compo on a demoparty where the best one actually won.
Voting with a lot of people doesn't really work .. if you want to do awards you should (as tomppa said) make a very small nomineelist and you'll have to make a small panel of artists that will choose who will be number one, two and three after a lot of argueing :)
If that panel would be mature enough not too let friendships etc.. ruin their true opinion, i think an awards 98 might work :)
By Mass Delusion on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 11:13 am:
I'm working on a little somethign something like this... it just might be time to get back into the publishing medium. =)
-Mass Delusion // TERBiUM, iCE
By Dangermouse on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 01:34 pm:
By Mass Delusion on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 05:39 pm:
Of course, I'm more than willing to hype it, but not before I've decided to do it or not. =)